Lyndon LaRouche Interview On WOL Radio's
 `Reynolds Rap'
April 20, 2023

Barbara Reynolds: ...We're going to bring to the mike in just a moment, a Lyndon LaRouche. He has been a controversial figure in international politics through the 1970s, and the 80s, and the 90s, and now now. He is an internationally known economist. He has run for the office of President six times, beginning in 1976. He's presently seeking the party's nomination. A lot of times, though, people react to him like he's the skunk that came into the tea party. So, we're going to hear some things that maybe you haven't heard. But there's a lot of questions out here, that people in high places don't want to address. So, the talk number here is 866-801-TALK.

There's questions that seem sometimes to be like rumors. People like Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney is raising questions. She says that the CIA gave a helping hand to the opium lords, who took over Afghanistan; thus, the CIA helped usher the Taliban into power. There are rumors that 3,000 Jews did not come to work at the World Trade Center on the day that it was bombed. Rumor? Fact? I don't know, but certainly we can talk about these things. Cynthia McKinney is calling for an investigation into whether President Bush, and other government officials, had advance notice of terrorist attacks.

There's also the suggestion that this Carlyle Group, which employs a number of high-ranking former government officials, even George Bush's father, is the same firm that bin Laden is connected to. So, I mean, I believe that we'll get to the bottom of some of these things, throw out different questions.

But before we bring on Lyndon LaRouche, I want to say that I am personally offended by President Bush calling Sharon, Ariel Sharon, "a man of peace." I mean, here's a man that has participated in the massacre of Palestinians, that right now in the Jenin refugee camp, people, young people, children, old people, have had their homes bulldozed, and people are being buried alive there. Maybe he's run out of words, maybe he's trying to build a little figleaf for Colin Powell to crawl under, but I don't understand how you can call Sharon a "man of peace." And I'm going to just start right there, with Lyndon LaRouche. How are you? And welcome to "Reynolds Rap."

LaRouche: Thank you very much, Barbara.

Reynolds: I just wanted to know, from you, Lyndon, what do you think about Ariel Sharon, and the President of the United States, calling him a "man of peace."

LaRouche: Well, I don't think the President is saying what he thinks. I think the President is saying what he wants to be overheard saying. And right now, he's got a lot of problems, and he is trying to butter up, at least on the surface, butter up Sharon, because of the coming mid-term elections, where he's been told, in effect, that if the election were now, that Joe Lieberman would replace him.

And he's also got a brother running in Florida, and he's told that if he says the wrong words against Sharon, that his brother might not get re-elected governor.

Reynolds: Yes, but the other thing of it is, how credible does one look, when you say things that are so crazy, that it ruins your credibility. What does that gain you?

LaRouche: Well, I don't think that George Bush was really qualified to become President. Al Gore wasn't either. So, we didn't have much of a choice. So we've got a President of which we didn't have much of a choice. Gore would have won, if he hadn't been a fool. If he'd stuck to Arkansas, instead of fooling around in Florida, he'd have had the Presidency.

So, we're in a situation where we're dealing with people like the President, who is not too much, not "shucks." But the problem is, that that the policies of the Congress, as well as the Executive Branch, which are responsible agencies, and they know that Ariel Sharon's policy against the Palestinians, is modelled explicitly and consciously on what the Nazis did against the Warsaw Jewish Ghetto.

Reynolds: Now, I'm going to ask you to go into that in a minute. But I want to ask you another question. Are you familiar with this Carlyle Group?

LaRouche: Yes, this is the old George Bush group, which is James Baker III.

Reynolds: Is this the firm that they say that Osama bin Laden is a part of, his family?

LaRouche: Well, they're all connected. Remember that when George took over from Brzezinski, George was given a special position -- the old George -- was given a special position under Reagan, in charge of Oliver North. And in that position, George was a key part of what became Iran-Contra. And they took over from Brzezinski, running the creation and fostering of these terrorists, who were deployed into Afghanistan, during the time the Soviets were in there too.

So, they were up to their ears in this stuff. This was, weapons trafficking; this was drug-money laundering; the whole kit and kaboodle. Now, Osama bin Laden was a late comer, relatively speaking, in this operation which was set into motion under Brzezinski, under Carter. So he was actually, at a point, he was actually working, in a sense, for the Anglo-Americans who were running this -- and the Israelis, who were also running this operation, drugs and gun-running through Pakistan into Afghanistan.

So there is a connection.

Reynolds: Isn't it strange? I want to make sure our listening audience understands what we're saying. I'm saying, in a sense, that there is a group called the Carlyle Group, which employs a number of high-ranking government officials, from both parties, and one of those was the former President, George Bush, in the same firm with the members of bin Laden's family. So, you've got bin Laden's family and the George Bush family, all in the same group, it's the same institution, it's the same business! And I'm going to tell you, Lyndon, when people speak out, they are described as crazy. There's something said about Rep. Cynthia McKinney, who's asking for an investigation into whether President Bush and other government officials had advance notice of terrorist attacks. Well, when she talked about the Carlyle Group, then people start saying, "well, was she saying this while standing on the grassy knoll in Roswell, New Mexico?" That's what I'm saying.

So, anytime you begin to challenge the position of President, or show some of these other issues, people label you as "crazy" or "kooky." Have not you been labelled such?

LaRouche: Well, sure. They said I was dangerous, and therefore they got their controlled mass media...

You know, you look at who owns the mass media. Personally owns it. It's a controlled group, Anglo-American group, tied to wealthy financial firms, to major law firms and financial houses, Washington, D.C., Boston, New York, and so forth. These guys control the mass media. They orchestrate opinion. They are "big brother." So when Big Brother attacks you, you mustn't get nervous. You know Big Brother's after you. But, if you're right, you're right. And you've got.... people need to have less regard for opinion as such, and more regard for truth.

Reynolds: Well, before I go into some other questions, I need to make sure that my listening audience knows who funds Lyndon LaRouche. You've been around here for years, and centuries... not centuries, but decades. And so, where do you get your money from, and how can you speak so forthrightly, when everybody else is trying to run and hide under a rock?

LaRouche: Well, I always that, you see, even before I got into politics. I got into politics, in a sense, in mid-60s, because of what happened after the Kennedy assassination, which I thought I better start doing something about the way the country was going at that point. Because I knew what some people were up to. I'd been a management consultant, and I knew some of the background of this stuff. And I decided I'd just put my body on line, and stop it.

But I was always like that. I was always a troublemaker. I always believe in truth. I never believed in simply doing what you're told to do, or say what you're told to say. Why not tell the truth? You have only one life. You might as well live it honestly.

Reynolds: And where do you get most of your money?

LaRouche: I don't get much. I'm in the lower income brackets, way down there.

Reynolds: Well, join the club.

LaRouche: Right. But the point is, there's a certain disadvantage in that. And there's also an advantage, if you don't have as much hostages to circumstance.

Reynolds: Well, stay right here, and we'll come right back and talk to you about some of the issues surrounding Sharon and the Middle East, and other political matters. All right?

[commercial break]

Reynolds: ...Reynolds Rap. And we're all into what's going on in the Middle East. We have Lyndon LaRouche on. He's a Presidential candidate again, is running for President. But we wanted to ask you about your characterizations about how the Palestinians are being treated. You compare that with how the Jews had a model for extermination? Isn't that just taking a saying too far? Because you remember that the Nazis killed 6 million Jews, and of course, there were Gypsies and Africans whom they also killed.

But when you make this... First of all, explain why you think there is a connection, and then I want you to ... go ahead.

LaRouche: There is a report, which was done by the Nazi general Juergen Stroop, who was the guy who did the job on the Warsaw Jewish Ghetto. Now, that report has been published and studied in great detail. The report was studied by the Israeli military, and was used by them in planning the current operation against the Palestinians. So, forget the... stop the whole question of what the Nazis did to Jews all over Europe. The point is that in this specific case, what is being done to the Palestinians now, is exactly a carbon copy of what the Nazis did to the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto.

Reynolds: Okay, and you're talking about the cutting off of their electricity, the laying siege to hospitals, ...

LaRouche: Mass assassinations, extermination, mass killing, burning buildings with people in them, pushing down buildings on top of children and others, families... in order to exterminate and drive the people from the land. And that's what the Nazis did. They said that in 1943, you had the Eastern front, the Russian front, and the Nazis were concerned about this pocket of Jewish resistance in this area in Warsaw. So they turned to this ghetto. And they said, "we're going to clean it up!" And Stroop, the Nazi general, cleaned it up! Using exactly the procedures for mop-up that were done in the case, are being done now, as in Jenin. Exactly. It's an exact copy of what happened in the Warsaw Ghetto.

Reynolds: I hope that you are wrong. I hope that we're not watching a repeat of what happened in Warsaw. But when you look at what happened in Jenin, the horrific scenes of human suffering, the people who would have made it to the hospitals, but they didn't allow the ambulances to travel around the city, how the equipment that you see in any earthquake situation, where you have heavy equipment, and dogs that can come and sniff out bodies - they wouldn't allow that there. And when you saw them digging relatives out of the rubble, you know. I was looking at that scene, and I said, there are little boys crying in front of their homes because they went to get their school books, and their school books were buried in the rubble. And their cousins buried. And I said, "there's the next terrorist."

LaRouche: Well, that's what happens.

Now, this thing is not just simply in Israel. We've got... See, we cover up. If you look at some of the things that have happened in Africa, particularly in the Great Lakes District, or in the takeover of whole parts of Congo by occupying, mercenary armies, with mass killing -- we turned a blind eye to what's going on in Africa. I've been sitting on this genocide for a long time, and it's been getting worse. I talked to the Clinton Administration about this, and they just said, they couldn't do anything about it. The U.S. military's too strong, they couldn't fight that policy.

So, what's happening with Sharon, Sharon and Netanyahu, simply happen to be Jewish fascists, but we've got people of the same mentality in various parts of the world, including inside the United States, who have exactly the same kind of mentality.

Reynolds: But let's wait here a minute. Because you have to understand that, although many of us understand why someone in a hopeless refugee camp would strap dynamite, or whatever, to them, and go blow up a city, but we still do not side with suicide bombers, because somewhere in here, there's got to be some balance, somebody to bring someone to the table for peace. I mean, I'm not for people who are blowing up other folks, no more than I am for the Israelis who are terrorists, state terrorists, who are tearing down villages, and blowing up people with tanks. The Israelis, they want security, and the Palestinians want a state. Do you see any way that this peace mission can ever be accomplished?

LaRouche: Oh, sure. I've worked at this. I'm been involved with Israelis and others, Palestinians and Israelis, since about 1975, very intensely, in trying to get this kind of peace. Clinton tried, but Clinton made some serious mistakes.

First of all, he allowed himself to be bulldozed into not raising the question of water and economic development. Secondly, when Barak refused, or made a demand which no member of an Islamic community could accept,  -- that is, the desecration of the holy site on the holy mountain in Jerusalem -- when he refused that, Clinton made the mistake of publicly blaming Arafat for blowing up the negotiations.  Arafat had agreed to almost everything that was demanded for negotiation, in consistency with the Oslo Accords...

Reynolds: But, speaking of Arafat, do you think it makes any sense to keep blaming Arafat for all of these problems, and saying Arafat ought to be the one to get everything under control...

LaRouche: He can't!

Reynolds: He's confined in Ramallah, in a little space, and he can't even get out the door.

LaRouche: Yeah, sure.

Reynolds: So, how's he supposed to bring peace to the Middle East, and he's a captive!

LaRouche: Well, that's the problem. You come right back to this Nazi phenomenon. They want to get rid of the Palestinian people, the way the Nazis wanted to get the Jews out of Warsaw.

Reynolds: Well, why do.... I know why the United States is so wedded. We give the Israelis and the Egyptians about $2 billion each. Israel is like a suburb of Washington, you know...

LaRouche: Or Washington is a suburb of Israel....

Reynolds: I don't know which one. But I'm not anti-Israel, and neither am I anti-Palestinian. I'm not anti-semitic, in the sense that they're both semitic people. They both were the sons of Abraham. You're talking about cousins fighting here.

LaRouche: Yeah, yeah.

Reynolds: But what can be done to try to get any kind of fairness in foreign policy here, because here, all we do is say that the Jews are right, that Israel is defending itself, and because, you see how they pull, they control the media, they wouldn't let the media into the Jenin refugee camp, so you couldn't show how they were blowing up their houses, and shooting people, but anytime that a Palestinian does some atrocity, the cameras are right there. You see people bleeding, you see people crying, you know. But when it's on the other side, you know, we're not there, we're not allowed to be there. So, it's such a control of the media.

LaRouche: Barbara, actually the responsibility lies in Washington. If the United States would stop backing Sharon, and say, "We agree with the former murdered Prime Minister Rabin," who made an agreement with Arafat, which they both kept to, and say, "That is what we support," and if the United States would put its muscle behind that, you would find that the people of Europe, the nations of Europe, would join the United States; that most of the nations in the United Nations would join with the United States, and we would simply give Mr. Sharon and company an offer they could not refuse. And we would simply impose a peace on the Middle East, because we're not going to have a war in the Middle East, as a religious war, or quasi-religious war, spreading throughout the Middle East, throughout all of Asia. We cannot have that. This is the greatest threat to world security today, is the danger of religious war, or ethnic war. And we in the United States, have a moral responsibility, to use our influence and power in a just way, to bring about peace, modelled on what happened in Europe in 1648, with the Treaty of Westphalia. And we can do it.

But we have to back it up with real substance. We have to say, "We are for the economic reconstruction of the Middle East. We are for mass desalination, so there's enough water for everyone in the area. We're for economic development to end the poverty in Israel, the impoverishment of the Palestinians. We want to make this an area of promise."

Reynolds: Let's talk about that in the next segment of just what we can do, the "we the people," what Lyndon LaRouche can help us do, but I guess that there are alternatives other than to sit and watch people being buried alive in the refugee camps, and, on the other hand, being blown up in the market place. I'm not for suicide bombers nor for state terrorism. So, keep it locked right here.

                    - [commercial break] -

Reynolds: ... I'm Barbara Reynolds, and we are talking to Lyndon LaRouche today. He's a world-known economist. He's running for President again, for the sixth time. You think you're going to make it this time, Lyndon?

LaRouche: Well, I think that if the country makes it, I might make it.

Reynolds: All right...  Well, we've got to wonder, is the country going to make it?

LaRouche: That's right. That's the big one. I'm number two on the list. Number one, is, is the country going to make it.

Reynolds: Okay, we have a caller on the line. Her name is San Louisa, from D.C. Do you have a question for Mr. LaRouche, for Lyndon LaRouche?

Caller: I want to corroborate something about what he's saying as far as this having something to do with what happened with the Nazis in Germany.

Hitler, when I was in college, we had to choose a person who supported, who was able to move the masses. And people were choosing Martin Luther King, and Gandhi... I chose Hitler. Because I could not understand why the world allowed what happened to the Jews to happen, and nothing was done about it. What I read his works, he said that the majority of the people will stay with the masses; as long as they're provided food, shelter, and clothing, they will not want to rock the boat. If you want to move the masses, you have to have something that the majority of the group that you want to move, is threatened by. Or you cause something for them to be threatened by. And people would become shaken, and they won't know what to do. And it could something instantaneously, or something that has built up to a point. Right after they are so shaken, and unnerved, that they don't know what to do, they'll become angry, and when they become angry, you funnel their anger towards the group that you want to funnel it to.

Reynolds: To the enemies.

Caller: And then you can do whatever you want to do to that group, and the masses will support it. Some people will feel very bad about what the masses are doing, and they'll think, "I shouldn't do this," but they will overlook that because they'll say, "If the masses of people are doing this, it must be okay. It must not be as bad as I think it is." And they'll go along with it. But in a short space, perhaps within two weeks or a month, they'll start thinking, "Wait a minute. This isn't right." At that point, you have to have something else to come about, that will attack them directly, or more directly than the first issue.

Reynolds: Well, let's put some of this to our guest, Lyndon LaRouche.

Caller: Well, let me just share this issue. If you go back to what happened with the air strikes, I don't call this terrorist attacks; I call them air strikes. We had the air strikes. There were several hours, nothing happened. Everybody became unglued. I was waiting for the President, or the Administration, to come on the air, and give some explanation for what had happened, and what was going to be done. Several hours went by. And then our President, about 4 or 5 hours later, came on the air, saying them "terrorist attacks." And then two days, he blamed it on bin Laden. And everybody first, when he did that, everybody started getting together their anger, and they, when he named the target, everybody started attacking bin Laden, without any proof!

Then the officials in Afghanistan said they knew that he didn't have anything to do with it... First, bin Laden said, "I didn't do it, I didn't do this." And then Bush said, "We're going to attack you anyhow, because we knew you did some other things." Then Afghanistan, the officials in Afghanistan, said, "Look, we know he didn't do this. If you can prove it, we'll turn him over." And, without any proof, we attacked Afghanistan, and killed and maimed, and destroyed homes of thousands of people.

Reynolds: Okay, I'm going to go...

Caller: One other thing. Right after that, two weeks later, what happened? Anthrax. And that anthrax, we know, may have come from this country. And what he's saying, if you read Hitler, if you read Mein Kampf and Hitler's works, and you look at what's going on right now, you'll see, and I agree, it's the same plan.

That's all I have to say.

Reynolds: Well, you said a lot, my sister, I'll tell you that.

Caller: Okay, I've got to go. I'm on my way to work.

Reynolds: You know, there are some people saying, including Representative Cynthia McKinney, who's calling for an investigation into whether President Bush and other government officials had advanced notice of the terrorist attacks on September 11, but did nothing to prevent them. She added that persons close to this Administration were poised to make huge profits off America's new war. And of course, she didn't say this, and I'm only saying what happened. Before, we had a President that wasn't elected, that was selected, and people didn't want him there. And then we had a war, and he's been flying high ever since. So I'm just wondering, is there anything there?

LaRouche: Well, she's looking in the right direction, but a little broad focussed. I'm more precise on this thing. You know I had the good fortune to be on the radio, being interviewed, at the time these things broke out, and I made a rather celebrated report during a two-hour interval, with a guy Jack Stockwell out in Utah, doing a blow-by-blow with what was going on. And I had this thing right from the beginning. This was an inside job, by something inside our security apparatus.

Reynolds: You mean, the terrorist attack...

LaRouche: It was not from outside the United States, it was from inside the United States. It was directed from inside the United States. It had nothing to do with the Arab world, etc., etc.

Reynolds: Now, wait a minute. Hold this right here now. Here's these two planes, who aimed and hit the World Trade Center -- one hits the Pentagon -- at the same time another third plane was coming, I guess, to Washington, and landed in Philadelphia...

LaRouche: The fourth plane, right...

Reynolds: ... when the people brought it down. And you're going to say, to our listening audience, that this was something that was orchestrated inside America?

LaRouche: Well, people can look it up on the Internet -- I think it's still on the Internet. You get all these reports of the exact schedule of when these planes took off, what route they took, how they flew... and you have a very sophisticated operation, which is beyond the capability of anyone who does not know, and does not have some degree of control over the inside of the security operations of the United States. This could not be done by some outsider.

Reynolds: Well, why not? These guys .. and first of all, these people were Saudis, most of them.

LaRouche: Well, no, they say so, but it wasn't. They weren't.

Reynolds: Well, where were they from?

LaRouche: We don't know. Because the point is, that most of the names that were given as the people [tape break]

Two areas are being focussed on. The question was, were the security arrangements, with which I'm somewhat familiar from my work in previous years, on the SDI and things like that: was the breakdown in our security arrangements, so great, that this could occur, or did somebody tamper with the system, to make it possible to occur? In other words, we have security arrangements which detect something approaching this. And to get four planes in a row... it couldn't be done. Besides, you know, these planes were being put in the air, simultaneously, they followed very exaggerated routes, the pilots behind this, whoever was operating this, were highly skilled. These were not guys who went to flying school. This was a very sophisticated operation.

For example, we had a discussion with a major general, who's a specialist in Egypt on this kind of thing. And we went through the thing. We did another study on this. We went to everything that's available in the public domain on this, and checked, and I checked also with some contacts and friends. This thing is not settled. We don't know exactly who did it, but we know what the purpose was.

The purpose was, obviously, as I said on the air, that morning, when the first thing hit, I hope somebody does not get the bright idea that this was done by Osama bin Laden.

Reynolds: Oh, my goodness.

LaRouche: And the reason they hit the Twin Towers first, rather than hitting Washington first, was in order to create the impression that this came from an continuation of the attempted bombing of the Trade Center before. And that's how this thing was done. Not one shred of evidence has ever been presented publicly, by any government, to show that there's a link to Osama bin Laden in any of this stuff. So, it's a hoax.

Reynolds: Don't they have photos of him talking about terrorism, that people should die, that we're the Great Satan, sort of?

LaRouche: Well, the point is, we don't even know if that was faked. You can morph that up.

Reynolds: Yeah, you can...

LaRouche: On Hollywood techniques.

Reynolds: Yeah, you can do stuff like that almost on your....

LaRouche: And it's  just not...

Reynolds: power port and stuff, but a little more sophisticated.

LaRouche: He is not capable. We have people who know him. This guy is not capable of such an operation.

Reynolds: Well, this is a startling accusation, but there, you know, there are things that go on, that, years later, we find out that it really did happen that way. So, Reynolds Rap is about investigation. I can't take a side either way, because I don't know, but you certainly have been enlightening, and we certainly hope to bring you back again.

LaRouche: Thank you, Barbara.

Reynolds: And keep working, and keep fighting. I'm sure there's a lot of people who will find your views, remarks, very stimulating.

LaRouche: More power to you.

Reynolds: Okay, with that, I'm going to just take myself right out of here....

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