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Lyndon LaRouche was interviewed live, by telephone, on Palestinian Satellite TV, on Tuesday night, August 26th. This is, presently, the only TV station left in Gaza, as the other one was bombed by the Israelis. The show, "Message to the World", which conducted the thirty-minute interview with LaRouche, was broadcast in English all over the Arab world, including in the United States. Due to technical difficulties, as there was shelling going on in Gaza during the interview, some of the questions could not be heard on the transcriber's tape and therefore are not transcribed here. Host: Good morning, Mr. LaRouche. It's a pleasure to have you with us on the show, and, unfortunately, we're talking from difficult circumstances as you hear me, Israelis are a few meters away from our headquarters, and anytime, we might have to stop transmission and evacuate the building, but please, the rest of the viewers are interested in your opinion on what's really going on right now in Palestinian-Israeli conflict. LaRouche: I'm having terrible trouble hearing you. I hear you in the background saying some words, but they're not getting through. I understand your difficulties at this time. Host: Okay, I will repeat again. Let's try to hear . . .(inaudible) LaRouche: Well, obviously, as you know, from my past background of over a quarter century, I've been very much concerned with this business in the Middle East, and Palestinian justice. At present, it's obvious that a certain faction in Israel, typified by Shamir earlier, or Sharon or Netanyahu, who are the hard-core of the old Jabotinsky apparatus, are now hoping now that the United States will start an attack on Iraq, which would then enable Sharon, under that cover, to begin the exodus of the Palestinian people in large numbers, across the Jordan River into Jordan, in accord with their policy. If this happens, I don't think anybody knows how hellish the world as a whole will tend to become. That is, if President Bush were to actually launch an attack on Iraq, I don't think anybody can calculate how bad the result will be for history of most of mankind, not just that region. And thus, to me, this cause of coming back at least to the level of the Rabin agreements with Chairman Arafat, that agreement must be restored, otherwise, we're going to have this lingering threat, not only to the Palestinian people, but to the people of the entire region. (Question): Mr. LaRouche, I hope you can hear me this time, my question now is, if that's the way they're thinking, and this is their ideology. Why did they sign with us the peace agreement at Oslo, and the rest (inaudible) ... if they don't admit our right to live as two nations (inaudible)... LaRouche: Well, there are, probably, three issues involved. First of all, among European Jews, in the Moses Mendelsohn tradition, the idea of ecumenical peace, is natural. Then, you have those in Israel who are not otherwise Fascists, who are Zionists, who like Rabin, recognize as a matter of practicality that Israel could not continue to exist, unless it established just relations with the Palestinians. The third group is a group that actually wants to exterminate any Palestinian existence, in terms of what they call Eretz Israel. In some cases means the River Euphrates, as the border of Israel. So, we have these three conditions. The case of Rabin, I think is what the middle position, that as a practical matter, and as a humane matter, they must find reconciliation with the Palestinians, between the Palestinians and the Israelis. That's the positive factor, I think we can shoot for. My own view is more consistent with the Moses Mendelssohn view, of an ecumenical peace among all peoples, especially peoples of the Christian, Islamic and Jewish faith. That's my objective, but I would settle, in the meantime, as a practical matter, for going back to the peace of the brave, and to describe between Rabin and Arafat. (Question): (inaudible) LaRouche: Of course not. No, there is not, we have in the United States a Utopian faction, which includes people who are the financiers of Sharon. These are wealthy people, who have gangster backgrounds, family backgrounds. They call themselves from rackets to riches to respectability, like the Bronfman interests, or the Lansky mob, and their descendents, who now control, for example, the Perle apparatus in the United States, which is behind Richard Perle and others. These people are, in a sense, really Fascists. They are as bad as Sharon, perhaps worse. They are the people who've made possible this development inside Palestine, inside Palestine and Israel. It came largely from the United States, from these circles. At present, the President of the United States, and some of the leadership of the Democratic Party, as well, are fully in support of Sharon. President Bush may hate Sharon personally, but as a political reality, he is now committed to support Sharon, and to go with an Iraq war. So, that's our situation. (Question): How, as an economist, and a professor in economy, and a politician (inaudible) LaRouche: Well, the point is, this is a war in which the United States has the capability of doing great damage, vast damage. But it cannot win the war. This is a situation similar to what Rabin said in presenting his case for a peace of the brave with Minister Arafat. That is, that there is no possibility of winning such a war. There is no possibility of actually winning a secure peace through war by an attack upon Iraq. It can only ruin the region, and, I think, all Arab governments that I've heard from agree on that, as well as others. Europe, I believe, Continental Europe agrees, a powerful faction in the United Kingdom agrees, most of Asia, I believe, agrees. Many of us in the United States agree. My concern is, here we are in a very dangerous economic crisis, collapse, and I think the President of the United States is inadequate to face the reality of that financial collapse. There are solutions, along the lines of Franklin Roosevelt's response to the depression of the 1930's. Those solutions would work. There are peaceful options. I can hope that our work in that direction will be successful. We're doing what we can. You'll find more and more people in the United States, by the day, including recently, General Zinni, who have pointed out, that only a person who is militarily incompetent would suggest the kind of policy which the President and the Vice-President of the United States have lately presented. (Question): (inaudible) . . . why they are not allowing the United Nations to send . . . what do they gain out of this policy? LaRouche: They don't gain anything out of it; they gain chaos; but when people are seized by an ideology, and are blind to reality, they ignore the consequences of their own actions. That's the situation now. No sane person would conduct the kind of policy which the United States is presently conducting toward the Middle-East. But if you look at-- the point is, all of the leading people behind supporting this policy, are people who, in the time they should have had military service, avoided military service. Those who are professional military people, who are competent in military affairs, say, don't do it. Only a bunch of incompetents, many of whom were draft dodgers, are the ones who are pushing this wild policy now. The problem with the United States is that both parties are weak. They've been heavily corrupted. Their orientation over the recent decades, actually, has been downward. We have a pretty sick... I'm trying to save the United States. And I'm doing what I can, as probably one of the few standing political leaders left, to try to mobilize people around this issue. I think we're doing a fairly good job. I'm not satisfied, but I hope we can stop it. (Question): (inaudible) LaRouche: Well, what I'm doing presently is, there are a large number of Arab-Americans, and, of course, people in other parts of the Arab world, as well as elsewhere, with whom I am discussing these matters, and collaborating as much as possible, but also in the United States, there are many groups called minority groups, and they share our concern, generally, about this Middle East crisis. My hope is that we can bring enough of them together, and I'm working to do that, to build an effective force to change the situation. The situation is not hopeless, the situation's a matter of timing. The question is -- will the attack on Iraq come before we can stop it? But, there are serious forces in the United States trying to stop this attack at this time. So, on that part, the Iraq thing, there is real concern, and there is, actually, resistance building up against it. It may not be obvious, or satisfactory to people in the Middle East, but it exists. My concern is to make that more effective. (Question): (inaudible) LaRouche: Well, first of all, I've always looked at this as, first of all, an economic question. The Palestinian people were among the best educated of the, in the Arab world. They are people with potential of running their own economy. They have the culture for it. The Arab people are not, of course, all of one faith, so, therefore, it's an ecumenical kind of thing. What is needed is large-scale water development, and energy resources for the Middle East because, presently, with the drainage of the aquifers, in that area, there is not enough water for the foreseeable future to meet the requirements of life for all the population. This is one of the aggravating factors. My concern has been, is to get large scale development projects, like the old Ledem (ph) idea, of getting water development, desalination methods, and energy resources in there, so that we can have viable states, which are self-sufficient. (Question): (inaudible) LaRouche: Well, I have a very impassioned personal sense of justice in this matter. I feel that I can feel some of the suffering, the desperation of the people in that region, as I do in other parts of the world, as parts of Africa, for example, where there's grave suffering inflicted. Now, in parts of South and Central America, we have similar situations, not as bad, but we have to understand, that we, as human beings, are different than animals. That through our power of ideas, which is a gift given to us in the image of the Creator, we have the ability to do acts and make discoveries, which we transmit as experiences to our children and grandchildren, and so forth. Through which we are able to honor our indebtedness to the work of our predecessors. If we can have that kind of conception of man, man as made in the image of the Creator, and our obligations toward one another, I think the very crisis that threatens us, means that, perhaps, we will learn a lesson, and finally build relations among peoples, provide justice for peoples on the basis of this notion, this ecumenical notion of man as made in the image of the Creator. That must move us, because I think that a person who does not have that view does not have the strength to withstand the kind of problems we face today. (Question): (inaudible) LaRouche: Thank you very much. |
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