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On October 20, 2023, Lyndon LaRouche was interviewed by telephone by Sr. De Renzis, of Radio El Mundo of Bueos Aires, Argentina, a widely listened to national radio station. The full text of the interview follows: Q: Good morning, Mr. LaRouche. What is the world situation at this moment, after Bush's announcement that he is committed to attacking Iraq, regardless of world opinion? A: Well, I think it's still jammed up. The world is waiting for the results of the November 5th mid-term U.S. elections. We don't know what will happen on Nov. 5, but we do know that there will be a dramatic change in one of several directions. Two other things. You have had in the recent five out of six days an increase in the so-called stock values in the United States. It's a complete fake. And nobody has been able to find the buyer. All the usual buyers are not buying. So maybe it's a man from outer space whose buying all these stocks. The purpose is to try to prevent a loss of the Republican Party in the Nov. 5 election. So the ongoing world depression is the key, and the most immediate aspect of the world depression is the Brazil/Argentina situation--that is, the combination of Brazil and Argentina. If you look at the reality in the entire region, from Mexico south to the bottom of Patagonia is in a state of existential collapse. The IMF conditionalities will assure a total collapse. If the conditionalities are not imposed upon these countries, that will mean a collapse of the IMF. If they collapse Argentina and Brazil, the IMF will collapse anyway. You have a state of hysteria in the minds of leading circles in the United States on this issue of the economy. And therefore the fake stock market growth and threats of war in the Middle East by Bush, are a reflection of this hysteria about the economy. I don't know what's going to happen exactly with the votes, but I do know that Bush is in deep trouble. Q: Mr. LaRouche, what is your view of the virtually guaranteed victory of Lula in Brazil, in the upcoming elections on Sunday? A: Well, it doesn't mean much, this Lula business, in a sense. This is already pre-discounted. That is, it would not be a change in the system, for him to be elected or not elected, really. The present President of Brazil, and others, agreed to IMF conditionalities. If they keep the promise, that's suicide for Brazil. So, Lula is not the issue, although he does represent an issue in other terms. The issue lies in the hands of the IMF, at a time that the Europeans--France, Italy, and Germany--are moving toward a reform of the existing European and also world financial system. So the question is how these things are going to come together. The economic issue, the financial issue, is going to be the key issue--not the election. Q: In Ecuador, we also have upcoming elections, and this is interesting because Ecuador is one of the three Latin American countries that has dollarized recently. What is your view of the financial bubble more broadly, and also, specifically, the question of dollarization. Does it hurt or does it help a country? A: Dollarization is like you're sick with a cold, and you take a dose of bubonic plague as a cure for the cold. You see what it's done to Brazil, since the Fraga-Soros agreements were made with the IMF in the fall of 1998, when the dollarization program was developed. You see how much worse this made the situation in Argentina, this press for dollarization. Q: You and your magazine talk frequently about some sort of a new universal pact or financial agreement. Would this revolve around the dollar as the main currency, or would we be talking about a new currency? A: No, the dollar would simply be a participant in the process. It would not be a determinant. What it means essentially is reversing the decision of 1971, and going back to the kind of economy and economic programs we installed in the period, say, 1946 to 1958. This means, for example, setting the price of monetary gold at $1,000 a troy ounce. Let me explain one thing. We are now in a world depression which is the worst world depression in the memory of any living person. Under these conditions, there's no possibility that the present world monetary financial system can survive. Now, to get out of this depression, as we look at the history of Argentina as an example, we've been going to hell for about 35 years. It will take a generation for us to build our way out of this mess. We cannot wait 35 years for the recovery to take full effect. Therefore, we're going to have to use state credit under a fixed exchange rate system, at 1-2 percent simple interest, in order to keep the structure of the economy functioning, to meet social requirements, and to devote ourselves to a generation of rebuilding the world economy. So, what's been pushed from Italy and elsewhere, on my recommendation in Italy, is going back to the Bretton Woods agreements, as they operated between 1946 and 1958 approximately. This would not be an exact copy of those original Bretton Woods agreements, but the thinking of Franklin Roosevelt in 1944 around the idea of the Bretton Woods agreement, would be the model of reference for designing a new system. And there is no alternative to what I have proposed. If my proposal is not accepted, the world is going to hell, and nothing can stop it. Q: With regard to these proposals, what is the political will that exists to bring this about worldwide? And on the subject of Europe, which has recently been expanded by accepting Ireland into the fold, how would they play a role? What is the role of the euro, in particular? A: The euro may be alive, but the agreements are dead. This system is a corpse. What is going to happen, as we've seen with the statement of Prodi, who is the head of the European organization, and then you compare that with the statement of Senator Marini (sp?) from France, and the attempts at finding a change by the Schroeder government in Germany, Europe is on the verge right now of a fundamental change and reversal of many features of the so-called Maastricht or European Community agreement. This is not a matter of a political trend. This is a matter of whether you stay on a sinking ship or you get to a lifeboat. What people are experiencing in Argentina, is a part of a worldwide trend, especially in Europe and the Americas. So, there is no choice. Either total collapse or sweeping and fundamental reform is inevitable. Q: What consensus exists globally for these policies? And what are your views with regard to the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas? A: That should be dead. There's no way that the nations of the Americas can survive under a free trade agreement. Let me explain that. It's rather elementary, but most people overlook it. The idea of free trade is a neo-Manichean kind of Gnostic anti-Christian insanity which was introduced to Europe during the course of the 18th century. It doesn't work. Modern European civilization functions economically, as well as otherwise, on the basis of two principles: the sovereignty of the nation-state as the highest authority, and secondly, the general welfare principle, for posterity as well as for the presently living. Now, this means that the basis for growth lies in long-term credit among sovereign nation-states. Without long-term capital security, at fixed low-interest rates, it is impossible to develop a modern economy. What is happening now with free trade, is an echo of what happened in Europe's 14th century, with the New Dark Age. Whatever else might be uncertain about the future, if the free trade agreement is pushed through, the nations of the Americas will vanish as nation-states over a fairly short period of time. As we're seeing in Europe, the tendency is to go back to the sovereign nation-state as the basis of economics. Q: Now we turn to the question of Argentina. What is your view of the economic situation Argentina is facing, and what is the solution that we have, both in the short and the long term? A: Argentina is on the edge of extinction. How much further can we go with what has happened already? Then you take this Mercosur combination, which doesn't fully function but which nonetheless is a very important idea. What happens to Argentina with the present trend, if Brazil goes down into the same pit? Argentina would have absolutely no future, if this were to happen. So, we have to reverse this trend, and there is a growing international tendency among nation-states, to go there. What is happening is, when people start talking about U.S. economic policy and IMF economic policy, people are going to reach for their pistols. We're at the end. There is no durable consensus for the present trend in the world economy today. And therefore, for Argentina, the question is, can there be enough other states which recognize that Argentina's present condition is their immediate future, in order to make solidarity with Argentina and similar countries, to force through what would be considered sudden and revolutionary changes, in economic policy? The entire international financial/monetary/economic system, the free trade system, is now totally discredited in fact, and it's about to the buried. Are we going to bury the system, or are we going to bury the people with it? That is the question. Q: We thank you, Mr. LaRouche, very much for your time, and wish you good luck in your campaign. A: Thank you. - 30 - |
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