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The following interview was given by Lyndon LaRouche to TALKSPORT RADIO-1053AM/1089AM,www.talksport.net. in the United Kingdom late Tues, March 18th). The host, James Whale, previously interviewed LaRouche during the 2000 Presidential campaign. James Whale: Now, George Bush last night issued Saddam Hussein with a 48-hour deadline, "Get out of Iraq, or die.": His view is unequivocal: There is no more time for diplomacy. It's time to get out now, while you still can. Support for an attack in this country is growing. But in the States, the mood has always been pro-war. But I'm joined on the line now, by an American politician who says that a U.S.-led invasion on Iraq will have disastrous consequences for the world. Lyndon LaRouche, a U.S. Presidential candidate for 2023. Mr. LaRouche, welcome to the program. LaRouche: Thank you very much. Whale: Now, I believe you're actually in Germany at the moment. LaRouche: Oh yes, I've been having some conferences and meetings here. Whale: Okay, you're not visiting the troops or giving some kind of succor to the U.S. Armed Forces. LaRouche: Well, I'm sympathetic to the regular professional military, and the poor bloke that has to go out there to do the fighting. But to some of the people who are doing the pushing, who have a good record as draft dodgers, I'm not too sympathetic. Interviewer: Now, Mr. LaRouche, it seems to us here in the UK, that there are no dissenting voices in the U.S. That's not exactly right, is it? LaRouche: I think we were cut off a bit. Whale: I'm sorry. I was going to say, seems to us here in the UK, that there are no dissenting voices against this war, in the U. S. LaRouche: Oh, there are lots of them. As a matter of fact, the majority of the U.S. population, apart from the leading mass media, the mass media, is against the war generally, the majority. There's a minority, a powerful minority, and some of the media -- the New York Times, for example, is an exception to that, at least in its own way, sort of a Liberal Imperialist exception to the madness of the fellows who are controlling Bush. But there is really a sense, in the military, in the ranks around government, the Executive branch, in cowards in the Congress, both parties, the Republican and Democratic Party, and some who are not cowards, such as Senator Byrd, or Senator Kennedy. There's real opposition to this, very strong opposition in the United States, but a very powerful impulse for it. Whale: How have we found ourselves in this situation in the 21st century, when you would think that we would have learned from the history lessons of the past, to avoid this kind of situation? LaRouche: Well, I think we have, and we haven't. I don't think George Bush really knows what he's doing. I think there's a certain emotional factor there, which his motives are quite independent of what those who are pushing him, such as Dick Cheney, for example, represent. Yes, this is a comparable situation. We're now in an economic crisis, worldwide, comparable to '29-'33, and we find a threat of Hitlers coming along, or people who think that way. For example, this idea of preventive war, we recall from 1938 against Czechoslovakia by Hitler, and against Poland in 1939. And there's no difference, essentially, between the proposed attack on Iraq, and what was proposed by Hitler, in terms of military policy, against Czechoslovakia and Poland. On top of that, there is no need for the war. There's no problem in Iraq, which is a real problem, which we couldn't handle with the tremendous support, and the tremendous alliance, which exists in Europe and the United States, and elsewhere, for example. We agree we're going to deal with the problem. We have enough strength -- we don't have to worry. There's no threat to us, from a nation of very poor and ruined 30 million, against our nation, which is powerful, and has over 300 million. It's just nonsense. The problem here is, as in '29-33, when you get into this kind of period, of economic breakdown, you get instability, where if you don't pay attention to the economic problem promptly enough, you're likely to have some blokes come up with the idea of a dictator. And that's the tendency around the heirs of a famous professor Leo Strauss, in the United States, whose ideas are predominant among all of the hardcore warhawks around the Bush Administration. So, that's the danger. And the other danger was raised by the French prime minister, and President. The issue here is not Iraq. The issue is the impulse of some people in the United States, to create a crazy utopian imperial effort, at this time, in the process of breaking relations with Europe. Now, if the United States, which is a very poor country now, really, on the inside, but has great imperial power -- or has had it -- is going to recover, it's going to depend upon European cooperation with Eurasia, in new trade relations, and I think that many people in the United Kingdom are determined not to break from continental Europe, at a time that England has its financial problems too, and perhaps the growth that was stimulated by Eurasian cooperation, might solve the problem there. It certainly would help us here. Whale: You see, Mr. LaRouche, I think you say something interesting, that perhaps the British don't realize, and that is, that America is, by and large, quite a poor country. LaRouche: Yes. We decided, back... we were the most powerful nation in the world, until we decided back in the middle '60s, some of us, to shift to a imperial consumer society, like ancient Rome, as opposed to being a producer society. Over the past nearly forty years, we have destroyed our internal productive capability, and relied upon our overreach of power, and financial power, and our ability to dictate, to extract what we wished to consume, at low prices, from virtual slave, or near-slave, labor in other parts of the world. So we have become a kind of roman imperial parasite, in this respect. And we are now a very poor nation. We must rebuild, we must understand this is nonsense, and go back to what we used to do, and realize, at the same time, that Europe, for example, which made the same mistake -- beginning with the Heath administration, the first Heath government, back then -- that this policy must be reversed. We must go back to being productive nations, take care of the general welfare of our population, make fine cooperation with our partners in Eurasia and elsewhere, and rebuild the world economy. It may take a little time, but it's the only thing worth doing. Whale: You see, I drew a parallel on this show the other night, to America becoming the new Roman Empire, and drawing the conclusion from this, that what happened to the Roman Empire, is a fate that could beset the USA, if they're not very careful. LaRouche: Oh, most certainly. As I've said to a number of people, the United States' mistake in going to this kind of empire, they fail to realize that the Romans started their empire at the height of their military power, and physical power. We have gotten into the business at the fag end of ours. It's not a good time to start an empire. Whale: (chuckles) Tell me what George W. Bush's chances of getting into the White House for a second term are. LaRouche: Right now, less than zero. Whale: Less than zero. LaRouche: Yes. Because what he's bringing upon us... We all realize, I think, those of us who are informed, what kind of catastrophe an otherwise apparently successful destruction of Iraq would mean. What it would unleash in the world. The attack on Iraq is not a war, it's a detonator of war, which I think every sensible military person in the United Kingdom, for example, would agree with me on that. We don't want it. So I think it's complete foolishness. I don't think the President, of course, is the most brilliant person we've ever had in that office. I don't think that he understands exactly what he's doing. He's a person of strong emotions, a very vindictive person, and I think, in this case, is lunging ahead out of sense of frustration over the U.S. economy, which is not behaving itself, as far as he's concerned. Whale: The thing that worries me, and I think a lot of people, more about this, is that a single man, albeit, supposedly, the most powerful man in the world, actually is able to bring the world to this situation, without anybody checking him. LaRouche: Well, I think if you go back to the First World War--you had the British Monarchy, the French, the fools of the German monarchy, the Austro-Hungarian monarchy, and the Czarist monarchy, in particular, acted like fools. There were forces at that time, in all of these countries, which didn't want the show. But it happened. Now, in our case, we have a system of government which is very good, but it has a flaw in it, which is unavoidable. We have one man, a President, who embodies the executive power of the Presidency. Not exclusively. He's only a sitting President. Therefore, in these situations, the question is, will the Presidency, in particular--which has many people who are involved in various official, and other, functions--will the Presidency act to shape the behavior of the President in making his decisions? When the Presidency does not function, then an individual President can go out of control. So, that's the danger right now. Whale: We are in this position simply because George Bush and Tony Blair themselves want this to happen, and they are able to make it happen, even if a large majority of the populations of their countries disagree. LaRouche: I think the situation is not hopeless. I will curse, in a sense, the cowardice and negligence of many of my friends in the United States, and abroad, that they didn't take the problem seriously enough in a timely fashion. But I think that what happened this weekend, with the President's declaration of this 48-hour notice and so forth, startled people, and there's suddenly a surge of belated activity, in the political parties in the United States, among institutions, and around the world. Let us stop this thing. The meeting which is to occur tomorrow at the United Nations Security Council, may be significant in giving some answers to what might be done. But I see a determination to jam this thing up, and stop it. It may not succeed, but it's the only show worth seeing. Whale: Lyndon LaRouche, thank you very much indeed for spending time with me this evening. LaRouche: Thank you. - 30 -
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