Lyndon LaRouche on the Bernie McCaian Show
WOL-1450 radio and XMSatellite
June 26, 2023

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McCain: Joining us on our live-line, Lyndon LaRouche is on board with us. He is no stranger to these microphones. He has been with us before. And one of the things that I have enjoyed over the years, is that he has been a person who speaks openly, and candidly, about those things important to him, and that he feels passionately about. Lyndon LaRouche, good afternoon to you, sir. How are you?

LaRouche: Oh, I'm in fair shape for an old geezer.

McCain: I think you're in better than fair shape.

LaRouche: My enemies fear that.

McCain: Let me do something right off the bat. Are you, or are you not, going to be a candidate in 2004?

LaRouche: I am a candidate.

McCain: There you go. Now, we've got that out of the way. Here goes part two. A couple of days ago, before the Senate in the well, Senator Byrd spoke openly and candidly about what he felt, and thought, had taken place with the involvement of the United States going into Iraq, and that he believed that the American people had been, and I use this word guardedly, had been deceived, or at least led down a path that did not have firm fact behind it, for us to go the way we did.

Give me your reaction, one, to what Senator Byrd had to say, and how much credence you give to what is being said by many, and that is that the intelligence community did not act fairly, nor candidly, with the American public, using the President as the source of received information.

LaRouche: Well, first of all, Byrd is saying -- he's a courageous old fellow, and I enjoy very much what he does, and I respect what he does.

On the question of the deception, I'm sticking to one thing, because we're talking about high crimes and misdemeanors. That is, we know that the vice-president of the United States, Dick Cheney, knowing that the story about the yellow cake from Niger was a hoax, with that knowledge, used that false information, to motivate a pro-war posture, in the Congress, at the time the issue of a war against Iraq was being debated.

Now, that is a high crime and misdemeanor: for a government official, to lie to government institutions, to bring about war.

Now, we could probably accuse these guys of many other things, but I'm sticking to the hard case, not going for the fru-fru around the edges. This guy's guilty. He should be impeached. There may be criminal charges against him for what he did. But if he gets out of there, and takes his neo-cons with him, I think our country has a chance to get out of the mess, which we're getting deeper into all the time now. And therefore, I think it's important that this guy either just simply resign, and take his boys with him, or he has to be impeached.

McCain: But what you're saying in effect, is that you're pointing the finger, and the accusatory finger of control, at the Vice-President. Do you have a speaker? Because we're starting to sound like we're in a fish barrel.

Let me come back a sec. You're pointing the finger at the Vice-President, the accusatory finger. What then are you doing, are you relieving the President of the burden of responsibility?

LaRouche: No, I'm looking at government as a future President would. We have a President who ain't worth shucks, but he happens to be the President. Now, what if you go for the President? You haven't got much on him, because the fact that he's not too clever, shall we say, means that that's a moderating consideration, in any errors he made.

The point is, he is essentially a puppet of the Vice-President, and this gang we call the neo-cons. Now, my view is, if we get this bunch out, and look -- he's only got about a year and a half plus to serve, the President -- if we get this bunch out, then I believe that the institutions of the Executive, with a little more courage shown by the Democrats, for example, in the Congress, we can get through the next year and a half, or so, without terrible problem.

However, if you were to go for the President, against whom you do not have a clear case, because you can't prove that he knew what he was doing, because his limitations are well known. However, the Vice-President, who is actually controlling the President's mind, like a ventriloquist controlling a dummy, he is the problem. You want to get rid of the President, and put him in as President?

McCain: Chuckles

LaRouche: That's not the smart way to deal with the problem. We got a good case against Cheney. We want to get rid of Lewis Libby, we want to get rid of Bolton over at the State Department, Wurmser at the State Department, Rumsfeld and so forth in the Defense Department. And I would also like to have Ashcroft go too. But the point is, we've got to solve the problem. We've got to save the nation. We've got the goods on the guy -- go for the action, and go for it quick. And get him out before we go into a war with Iran.

McCain: Do you believe that you can gain the kind of support, out of the Congress, that is necessary to move forward in your proposition?

LaRouche: [Laughs] Maybe you'll appreciate it , but I think that we've got nine guys I'm running against. Some of them are harmless. That is, that they're running for President, they have a right to run for President, Dennis has a right to run for President -- Kucinich. He's got a constituency. Al Sharpton's got a constituency -- he's got a right to run. They're not going to win, and they know it.

All right. Now, you've got some who are really contenders. You've got Lieberman, who won't make it, because he's too crooked. But you got only one guy out of the nine, who are my rivals for the Democratic nomination, who I think really has the potential to fill the shoes of a President, up to a point. And that is Kerry. I'm not talking about Jay Rockefeller, he's not in the game yet. He may be hinting at it, but he's not in it.

All right. So, what's wrong with Kerry? Kerry, he Hamletted out, shall be say, like a Hamlet in Shakespeare's Hamlet, on the issue of Iran-Contra. He had the goods, and he backed off. He had the goods on Cheney the other day; he backed off, and he went for the President, where he doesn't have the goods. He had the goods on Cheney. He didn't go for it.

Now, he also, with the DLC, which is the hard core right wing, in the Democratic Party, the party -- this is the group that in the Democratic Party has prevented the Democrats from dealing with the right wing in the Presidential ticket side. Now, therefore, these guys, all nine of them, none of them are qualified to be President.

McCain: Do me a favor, sir. Stay on line, I've got to make a commercial break.                        - [commercial] -

McCain: Back on board with you. Lyndon LaRouche is on board with us, and we're pleased to have him here.

Lyndon LaRouche has been a candidate for the presidency of the United States. He has been described as a political, philosophical gadfly, not only of national, but of international proportion. He has not had a problem in challenging those things in this country that he believes need to be held feet to fire, so that greater clarity and more truth comes out.

You were just saying, a little while ago, sir, you were doing a breakdown of the Democratic candidates, and you were saying those who were serious, those who were not, and why you thought that certain candidates were saying, or should be saying, certain things. I think we were taking a look at Senator Kerry.

LaRouche: Well, Kerry is the one with the brains, and normally you would say, the guts, to be in very high office. He's already a Senator, and as President, I would be very happy to have Kerry in the Senate, along with some others, including some Republicans, because now, at this point, I'm at the point that I have to think about, since the likelihood of my being elected come a year from November, is now very high, and increasing rapidly, therefore, I have to be thinking seriously, about putting together my government, and my policies, my foreign policies and domestic policies, for immediately implementation the day I walk into the White House.

McCain: Let me step back, and you and I have been talking for some time. I think the first interview I did with you had to be around '79 or '80. I think you're on speaker phone, and we're winding up sounding as though we're in a fish barrel, so, if you could just pick up the receiver for us, it would sound a lot better.

LaRouche: We're getting some echo feedback.

McCain: Probably so. Well, in any event. And I've heard you state before how close you thought that you were coming to the possible Presidency, and here you're saying that again. But there are those who would say, that is not a high probability, but you do have, without a doubt, a role to play, in trying to fashion and form the debate that is going to take place nationally.

Now, if, and I say, if, what I have just said is not necessarily so, but has possibility, what and how would you want to form the national debate, or affect those people that you believe might have an equal chance to yours, or a step below in opportunity, to where you are?

LaRouche: What I've been looking at, is, I'm looking at the possibility, as I said, of putting a government together, and I'm looking at candidates, and other people, as people who I would consider prime personalities in my government. And so therefore I'm addressing these other fellows, who I don't think are qualified, none of them, none of the nine, really, not qualified for President under these conditions.

We're on the face of the worst financial crisis in modern history. We're getting into wars, we're getting into foreign policy crises, the United States is going down the tubes. We've come to a period like 1932-33, after bad presidents, Coolidge and Hoover, in particular, where Roosevelt had to step in, and make some very drastic changes. Without Roosevelt, we would have not made. And at that point, I'll say my chances, I say, there's an element of sanity somewhere in this country, and therefore, if the American people are intelligent, or at least a large number of them, and see what we're facing, they're not going to accept a usual type of candidates. They're going to want somebody who's going to do what Franklin Roosevelt did. And I'm the only one on the scene that's doing it.

So, therefore, I'm trying to develop other political figures, in the United States, to give the United States the quality of political leadership and depth, it does not have presently. They're are some people in the woodworks who are very good, but I need to form a group of people, who will be recognized by the people of the United States, as a team of leaders of our nation.

McCain: How are you going to address the strident philosophies, and politics, that now exist in our society, and how they have moved into an arena, in taking on almost a mantle of theology, in what they ascribe?

LaRouche: Well, these guys are a small minority. They're an extreme, right wing, and actually a fascist minority, centered around the Vice-President, and the so-called neo-conservatives. These guys come directly out of the same woodshed that Hitler came from. They're American, or mostly, and they're no good.

This is a tiny minority, which has seized control of the government, because we have a weak-minded President, and we didn't have much of a run for selecting President in the year 2000. So, with Gore or Bush, we would have had a problem, because neither figure was competent to lead the nation, under these conditions.

Now, under those circumstances, what has to be done, is, we've got the worst financial crisis in world history. At present, I probably have a growing respect, among circles of government around the world, beyond anything that any prospective candidate in the United States has. And a very rapidly growing support in the United States. I've got to lead this nation out of this danger of war, and worse, and out of the worst depression, the worst financial crash in modern history, which is coming on now.

Those are the key issues. I've got 80% of the lower income brackets of this nation, who are facing disastrous conditions, which are becoming worse and worse since 1977. I've got to put through programs of the type that Roosevelt did, large-scale infrastructure projects, a lot of projects, power projects, rebuild our health care system, rebuild our educational system, get people back to work in decent jobs.

[commercial break]

McCain: Lyndon LaRouche is on board with us, Presidential candidate for the year 2023. He has been an observer of the political scene in this country. I first remember meeting him -- I believe it was 1979-1980 -- and was taken by his candor and this view of what is taking place in this country. One thing I wanted to make sure that I asked him, and that is: Take a look again for us, and we started this off, at the war in Iraq. Take a look at what you see as the point and view of this Administration for that arena of the world, Mr. LaRouche.

LaRouche: Well, the President is a very stubborn guy. I don't think he knows anything about what's going on in Iraq. He's being told certain things, but, if you look at what was said by the Army and Marine Corps, flag officers, both retired and serving, and what's been said since -- they were right, and the crowd around Cheney and around the Defense Secretary, Rumsfeld, were wrong. We have a mess in Iraq which is getting worse by the day. We have a mess in Afghanistan, which is far worse than when we went in there. And it's getting worse by the day. These fellows who are running the Presidency -- I don't think the President himself is really to blame, in the sense, I don't think he really understands it. I think he's only concerned about being reelected come next November.

McCain: But, your foibles, if they then foster themselves, in the final analysis, on others, then it is your fault. I mean, I can't treat him -- he's the President of the United States -- I can't look at him as a wayward child.

LaRouche: Yeah. Well, that's what we got. We elected him. I mean, we didn't really elect him; we got him in there somehow or other. But he's President. The problem is, I've got to worry not about who's to blame; I've got to worry about how to solve the problem. I've got to get our country out of a mess in Iraq.

McCain: How do you propose to do that? Because the commitments have been made; the international community is looking. How are you going to do that?

LaRouche: No. If you got rid of this crowd around Cheney, and had the regular institutions of the Presidency functioning; if you had the Democrats who are elected playing as less than the cowards they've been recently, except for a few guys like [Sen. Robert] Byrd, the I think we'd have a manageable situation, and we'd get out.

McCain: Give me an idea of how you're going to do that. What America has done, along with Britain and a few Eastern European nations, has invaded another country, disrupted its infrastructure; the normality, though it had been crippled to a large degree of the life of everyday people who were there -- no one is going to rejoice that a dictator was in place, but at least the people had some normalcy in their life. If that was going to be changed, it would seem, as many have said, it could have been changed at a cheaper cost, two behind Saddam Hussein's ear, as opposed to two behind the ear of a nation of people.

LaRouche: Well, the problem here is, we're not talking about Iraq. We're talking about 60 nations who are targetted by Cheney and Co. If we impeach Cheney, if you impeach Cheney, or get him to resign now, that situation can be brought under control. If we get rid of Blair in Britain--

McCain: But tell me how it can be -- you know it doesn't magically or mysteriously come under control--

LaRouche: No. That's what I'm working on. I'm working for, seriously, to press for the impeachment or resignation of Cheney.

McCain: I got that. But Cheney is gone. But give me something more concrete than--

LaRouche: All right. For example, if Cheney goes, you've got Bolton and Rumsfeld from the Defense Department; you've got Libby gone from the Vice President's office; you've got the other Chickenhawks, the neo-cons gone. You will have removed two things: You will have removed the cause of this unbelievable cowardice in the Democratic Party. You will have a accelerated the opposition to this by Republican circles such as Scowcroft and Co., or John Dean. You will have created a situation in which European and other pressures on the United States, to get out of that, will go to work. Right now you have a small group of people--

McCain: Okay, all of that -- and I understand -- it looks like dominoes. If you remove one, then the tumble starts. But after you've done that, what then is your plan for working to rebuild those nations that have been impacted by our political, philosophical, and military machines? How are you going to do that, and then, how are you going to shore up those other nations and change what is taking place there philosophically, so that you have more stability, or better stability, in that region of the world, so that there's not necessary, or the belief is no longer necessary, that you've got to stand by with a possible commitment of military forces?

LaRouche: I'm not standing off and proposing something; I'm actually in the process of doing it. I've been involved in South Korea, in India--

McCain: I've got all of that, but you're not telling me anything--

LaRouche: I am telling you Bernie. I am now moving for this impeachment, and I'm telling you that around the world, if we put the thing back in the United Nations Security Council, if we start to cooperate with these nations, and if Bush will step on Sharon -- that's the key thing here -- will Bush step on Sharon? Because you will have no peace in the Middle East, until Sharon is under control--

McCain: Now, you and I both know that George Bush is not going to step on Sharon, and neither is the party going to step up--

LaRouche: I wouldn't be too sure about that. George Bush is--

McCain: I'm taking a look at over 40 years of history.

LaRouche: I know; well, don't believe it. Right now, you've got a special situation. You've got the son of Mrs. Bush, who is President. He wants to be reelected next November. That's his number one objective. The rest of the world -- that's not the objective. That is the objective. He has an adviser, Karl Rove, who is kind of shrewd, who is working on this problem. People are trying to convince Bush now, even in his own camp, that he's got to step on Sharon.

McCain: But he's also hearing from the religious right in this country that, one, puts up money; two, comes out to the polls; and three, it affects those politicians who are around him, and they threaten him, and he can win. But if he wins, and does not have that political power, he loses. So you're gonna have to show me another way where he's gonna step on Sharon.

LaRouche: No. He's not going to -- he can not possibly win if he doesn't step on Sharon. And he knows it. I mean, the question is, his advisors know it. He is going to be pushed to step on Sharon. He's reluctant to do it. He's a problem guy. He's a difficult guy to deal with. But if he does not step on Sharon, we're going to have something worse than having him reelected as an ineffective President.

McCain: Well, you're talking about -- if he doesn't step on Sharon, and he is not reelected, it seems as though that works for you and other candidates.

LaRouche: Well, I don't worry about other candidates. I don't think that any of them--

McCain: But does it work for you if he's not reelected, and if he doesn't do what you're proposing?

LaRouche: It doesn't work that way. It doesn't work by negatives. It will work because he, in any case, will not deal with the real problems of the world. It happens right now. He, as President, is in a peculiar position where he can give the orders to step on Sharon and bring about a peace, a manageable peace at least, in that part of the world. If you do that, then the chain-reaction effect, which is now in place: the threat to go to war in Iran, a secondary threat against Syria, the threat in North Korea, all these things -- if you don't stop Sharon, these things will click.

McCain: If you turn around, and you were talking about a Syria that existed when Assad was alive, the old man was alive, that might be a different ballgame. The son is having a problem, even with his military leaders in that country, and his political leaders, in trying to show his muscle. Because a lot of them are trying to hold onto other aspects.

LaRouche: What do you mean? In our country?

McCain: No, in Syria.

LaRouche: Oh, don't worry about that. Syria's not a problem.

McCain: Absolutely not. And that's what I'm saying. But, if Syria's not a problem, Egypt is not a problem, and Lebanon is not a problem because they are about to sweat Iran, then what is, how are they going to sweat Sharon. Sharon has all the muscle he needs built in to what is taking place in this country and into the infrastructure of the Administration.

LaRouche: I don't believe it. I think that's a myth.

McCain: Well, you might think it's a myth, but I'm sorry sir, but respectfully I submit, when we start taking a look at the people who are around him, whether it's Wolfowitz, or Perle, or whether or not we are looking at Rove -- they are not a myth, and they have been extremely supportive of Ariel Sharon.

LaRouche: Yeah, well, Rove is a different case. Rove is not a neo-con.

McCain: Rove is a practical politician, and his practical politician says that he is not going to push to get Sharon out of there, because he understands that that religious right is not necessarily going to support that--.

LaRouche: I'm not afraid of the religious right. They're a small minority.

McCain: I'm not talking about what you're afraid of. And that's not a small minority.

LaRouche: It is. It is, actually.

McCain: How do you say that, sir. Tell me how that works.

LaRouche: Well, the point is, is look: What's running the country now, the United States, is an inertia among the top 20% of family income brackets--

McCain: I've heard that one before, but we're not talking about "family income brackets" -- that's money, not numbers. And we start talking about the religious right, we're talking about both money and numbers.

LaRouche: No. I don't believe it. I think it's a myth. They are an Elmer Gantry, crazy Elmer Gantry phenomenon. But that is a shrinking minority in the country.

[commerical break]

McCain: Our guest on our live line, Presidential candidate for the year 2023, Lyndon LaRouche, who's on board with us. Mr. LaRouche is a political activist, observer, a philosophical -- how can I put it -- teacher in world politics. You know, you wind up with some people who will stand back and be...

[tape change]

...players and he has been a player. And I do mean a world player. What we're doing, is taking a look at his proposition, and that is to have the Vice President of the United States impeached. And so therefore, there would be a change in the hierarchy of those who are in the Bush Administration. He is saying that if that takes place, there is going to be a change in how things are handled in the world. That then, is going to push other changes to take place. We have asked Mr. LaRouche, in what way, and he said that the President has an opportunity to show some strength, and possibly get back into the swim if he abandons, to some degree, or changes how this Administration supports Ariel Sharon. And what I was saying is, I disagree with whether or not he would do that, because the religious right in this country would not stand by for that to take place. And Mr. LaRouche and I disagree on the strength, real or potential, of that segment of the political right in America.

I would go back and ask Mr. LaRouche this question, and that is: If that is a myth, then what we have seen, either with his father, or with Ronald Reagan, in this country, with the religious right, we have seen a myth in play, but we see a reality in play every day, either going to Israel, or, involving itself with what is taking place with the political right in this country. Mr. LaRouche.

LaRouche: Yeah. Okay good. Well, the religious right is highly exaggerated. But it is dangerous. It's dangerous in the way the Nazis were dangerous. When you go back and look at how the Nazis came to power, and look at this crowd behind Cheney, as if they were a new phenomenon like the Nazis. Now, the Nazis, at the end of 1932, were a minority, which had just lost an election. Goebbels and other Nazis were thinking of suicide because the Nazi Party was bankrupt. A bunch of bankers associated with the Bank for International Settlements, but also a group like Bank Worms, Lazard, and so forth, others, suddenly pulled money together, put Hitler back into shape financially, pulled a coup with Hindenburg, threw out the existing Chanceller of Germany, two days later, put Hitler into power, and then the following month, set fire to the Reichstag, and used that to make a dictator. And then we had World War II, as a result of that.

Now we're in a similar situation. The religious right in this country is part of a combination, a minority, a dangerous minority, irrational, which is fascist in the most literal sense of the term. The same way that Mussolini, Hitler, the Vichy government, and Franco were fascist. These guys are fascists. If you allow this kind of minority, like the Hitler minority that took over Germany, to take over the government, then the normal processes of our government, the give and take of the political process, will break down. We'll head toward Hell, and won't know how to get out of it.

If however, at this point, while we still have a moment of opportunity to make sure that Hitler doesn't take over -- and that is, in the case of what's behind Cheney -- if we stop that now, then what kicks in, it kicks in the generals, the other people in the Defense Dept. who are against this, the intelligence community--

McCain: But, Mr. LaRouche, pardon me for just coming across: That holds only if you're correct that Cheney is the linchpin, is so. You would have us believe that there is no substance and no ability in the person who is President of the United States. And I find that difficult to hold onto.

LaRouche: Well, I don't. I know the man. Laughs.

McCain: We're talking about what one believes of an individual, but at the same time, he would still be a rallying point, if for nothing else, than whomever might be a shadow of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Perle, Wolfowitz, or [R...]

LaRouche: I think we get the whole bunch out. That's what I've aimed at, I did my ...

McCain: You can't impeach the whole bunch! No, you can't. They are employees of the government, working at the will of the President, so you can't get them out by impeaching Cheney.

LaRouche: Of course you can. Because if the Democratic Party -- I mean the people in the Congress, not the crazy DNC-- not the crazy DLC right-wingers -- but if the Democratic Party, was simply to follow people like Byrd, what Byrd has said, what Kennedy has said, what Kerry would have liked to have said if he had the guts to do it, if they would take the power of the Constitution, on advice and consent, the power of impeachment, and go after this crowd, the whole crowd would ‘git.' They'd be gone.

McCain: You're still talking about the same crowd that rolled over, and handed over to this President, and the Administration, their right to give consent, to advise and give consent, and that's the same crowd that said to the President, "Any time you want to, you just go ahead, and you just pull the button. We give you the power." Is this the same crowd you're talking about?

LaRouche: Yup. You exaggerate their power. They got in by default.

McCain: Who got in by default?

LaRouche: The way dictatorships get in by default.

McCain: Who got in by default?

LaRouche: The whole crowd, the neo-cons, it's all one group of people.

McCain: Wait a minute. No, no, no, come back a minute, sir. It's easy to use a word, when you say, "They got in by default." Who got in by default?

LaRouche: Well, Wolfowitz got in by default.

McCain: Wolfowitz got in by default?

LaRouche: Rumsfeld got in by default.

McCain: Wolfowitz wasn't elected. He was appointed.

LaRouche: That's right.

McCain: So was Perle. So were the rest of them. But they're appointed at the behest of the President. They serve at his pleasure.

LaRouche: No, they also serve at the discretion of advise and consent powers of the Senate, and the Congress.

McCain: They serve because they have been cleared by that body. That body...

LaRouche: No, the Senate has the power, the Congress has the power, to dump these guys.

McCain: You think that this Senate, you're asking for a lot, Lyndon LaRouche. You're asking for a body of men, 300 strong, to reverse themselves in every way possible.

LaRouche: You're talking about a couple dozen.

McCain: You don't really believe that, do you?

LaRouche: Of course I do. I can tell you this, if we don't do it, you're not going to have a United States.

McCain: That's a distinct possibility, but the other possibility is that you will have a United States, you will have it reconfigured, and you will have a new power structure...

LaRouche: It will disintegrate. I know what the situation is. We have a chance.

Remember, Hitler took over Germany. In the same period, you had the same world crisis. There are two countries...

McCain: ... [inaud] I'm clear about in the German situation, it was the will of some of the people, if not the will of all of the people, as this situation that we have today, is the will of some of the people, if not all of the people. And what you're trying to institute, is the will of some of the people, and not all of the people.

LaRouche: No, no, no, no. See, we had two choices. In Germany they put in Hitler, by a coup, by a bankers' coup. Not by a majority vote. Not by support, but a coup. In the United States...

McCain: Well, you had a media coup in this country?

LaRouche: Well, forget that. In the United States, we put in Roosevelt...

McCain: You can't forget that. How are you going to forget what took place there?

LaRouche: I mean, that's a different story. Roosevelt was the difference. Franklin Roosevelt saved the United States, and save the world. If Hoover had been re-elected, we would not have saved the United States.

McCain: The question of Adolf Hitler was not the question of the United States at the time that Roosevelt came into office.

LaRouche: Yes, absolutely, that was it. Roosevelt was elected in...

McCain: ... Stay on board with us, right here at the Power. I'm Bernie...

                    - [ commercial break] -

McCain: We're five minutes before the top of the hour. Lyndon LaRouche is our very special guest. Mr. LaRouche, we're so close to the top of the hour. Share with us, in these few minutes that we have left, your vision for this country, if elected.

LaRouche: Well, first of all, we need to go through a reorganization, domestically, like that which Roosevelt did, from 1933 on. We need to assemble a Presidency to move in as Roosevelt, as Roosevelt prepared his Presidency, to launch the programs which will get this country out of terrible poverty and suffering, which most of the nation is suffering.

We have to have a new foreign policy, which cooperates with our friends abroad, and finds friends in China, in India, Turkey, the Middle East, and so forth, as I have. We have a lot of friends, potential friends. We don't have to have these quarrels with our friends. We don't want an empire. We want a system, under which there are sovereign nation states, in this world, which act as a community of principle, which discuss and argue, but we work together, as a community of principle, while defending our sovereignty. We need that kind of United States, which is our tradition, and we have a chance to get it, and I'm determined that we shall have that chance, and shall succeed.

McCain: Lyndon LaRouche, I want to thank you for coming on board with us. Have an excellent day, and an excellent weekend too. We'll keep an eye on what's going on with that candidacy.

LaRouche: Thank you.

McCain: Take care now.

LaRouche: I shall.

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