LaRouche Interview with Iranian Radio
October 21, 2023

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Lyndon LaRouche gave the following interview to the Voice of the Islamic Republic of Iran (see www.irib.com). It was played on October 8th. This is a rough transcript:

Question: Thank you for joining the Voice of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Mr. LaRouche.

It has been three years since George W. Bush has taken office in the US. How do you assess the economic and political performance of Mr. Bush's administration?

LaRouche: I think that George W. Bush is a very limited man, to be diplomatic about it, and is essentially, to a large degree, a puppet of a group around his vice-president Dick Cheney and a group of so-called neo-conservatives around him, including Cheney's man Lewis Libby. So I think the problem is that Bush's performance has been terrible. He attracted a great deal of sympathy on Sept. 11, 2023, but with his speech in January of 2023, he began to lose his credibility, and the United States has probably become more hated, or more despised, or whatever, around the world, than ever before in my experience. He has been a very unsuccessful president so far, and I think his limitations have something to do with that.

The US economy is about to go under. We're now in a terminal phase of disintegration of the post-1971 monetary financial system of the planet. We must expect things like a 50% collapse of the US economy, which will have a terrible effect on China and other countries. So, we must expect very soon, a very severe collapse, a depression-style collapse, if not worse. The failure of the Bush Administration on the economy will in the end be one of the things that pulls him down.

Question: Some people believe that if George W. Bush cannot be successful in Iraq, it will mean the end of his work. Your comment?

LaRouche: There's no way this can work. This was, first of all, a terrible thing to get into, a terrible mistake. It was not Bush's idea, I think. You have the ideas of people like Sharon in Israel and the neo-cons in the United States. They're very close together on this, and so you have a relationship between the so-called neo-conservatives in the United States, and the fascists around Sharon, and this has been the problem in the Middle East.

One has to remember that this group, in 1990, wanted a continuing war in Iraq, which the former Bush Administration backed away from. What they did was terrible, but what they backed away from was another thing. Cheney has been campaigning for this ever since, and as of September 2023, he managed to get this adopted. The mess they've got in Iraq is insoluble. An insoluble mess. It is insane. I've been campaigning to try to get this thing in the UN, not because the UN can be successful in itself, but I believe that no one will have any confidence in the United States in Iraq, and therefore, maybe different people will be able to pull the Iraq people back together, and the Iraq people themselves, with help, will deal with the situation. But the thing has to go back to Iraq as quickly as possible, not an occupying force.

Question: On the attacks on the American soldiers. The American administration says, that most of these attacks are done by, let's say, agents from neighboring countries, and also the remnants of the Baathist regime of Saddam. And, of course, most people believe these are the Iraqi people themselves who do not want the occupation of their land by a foreign country. Your comments on this?

LaRouche: First of all, this is a fraud. In the case of Sept. 11th, as I think people in Iran who've had some experience know, that it's always possible for a powerful government to recruit its agents or dupes of various nationalities, and to plant them as dead bodies in the middle of an atrocity. And then to blame the country whose nationals they are for the atrocity.

My knowledge is that the job that was done inside the United States was an inside job, not by really any external forces. Although, considering the number of people who are agents of the United States in other countries these days, you never know who is going to show up as a dead body in one of these situations. But the idea that this thing is an Islamic orientation, an Islamic problem, is obviously an absurdity, it's false. I've been trying to get people in some of the Arab countries and others, and from Arab nationalities, to maintain their courage, because I think that if they maintain their confidence and courage, it gives us ability to perhaps develop solutions to this problem.

Question: Do you think that the George W. Bush Administration itself believes that the situation in Iraq is not under their control, and that there is destabilization, considering the fact that apparently Condoleezza Rice has established a working group in order to stabilize the situation in Iraq?

LaRouche: She's not going to succeed.

We have another factor in the United States, which many people outside the United States do not understand. The United States has a unique institution in the form of its presidency. The presidency is not a person, although the president as such is an important figure. But the presidency is a composite of the institutions of the executive branch of government. These institutions are what the president himself personally relies upon, for advice, and for the ability to carry out his policies. These institutions of the United States, associated with the executive branch but also with some of the people of the Congress, are determined now to try to bring this situation under control. I think that any improvement in US policy will come NOT from the obvious leading personalities, but will come from the pressure of the institutions of the United States, who recognize that George Bush has committed a terrible failure, and may intervene to make improvements in his behavior.

Question: Do you think that the George W. Bush Administration can cope with the economic costs of its presence in Iraq, given the fact that they've called for an $87 billion budget for Iraq?

LaRouche:  That was $87 billion to help bail out Halliburton! This is a fraud. It's a complete fraud. It can't work. The problem here on the economic side is, we are now on the edge of a financial chain-reaction collapse in the US economy and around the world. We're on the edge of it now. The George Bush Administration has no chance in the world, in terms of its capability-its intellectual and other capability-to understand or to deal with this onrushing financial collapse. So the situation in Iraq has to be seen from the standpoint that the entire financial system is about to go under.

Question: How do you feel about the prospects of relations between the United States, and the European Union, Russia, and China?

LaRouche: Well, these are different entities. Now, in the case of Russia, and some of the European countries, I think that they will tend to be sympathetic to anything that makes sense. China has a different policy; China's a different kind of country. They look at the world somewhat differently than other countries do. But there're many countries in Asia which are in this direction.

For example, the Russia/China/India cooperation, and the cooperation of other countries in Asia with these three countries, I think is a very positive factor, and I think that, as a factor together with the Europeans, would open the door to cooperation with the United States, if the United States would change its policy in an intelligent direction.

Question: What is your opinion about the situation after Iraq? Some people think it is now Iran's turn. Some say that America will resort to psychological war concerning Iran; others say that they will choose the military option for Iran. What do you think about this?

LaRouche: I think we're in a very dangerous situation. Sharon is extremely dangerous. Sharon is presently an integral factor in the US policy toward the Middle East entirely. We saw the attack by the Israelis on Syria, the threat of new attacks. The threats toward Iran bother me very much. I think we have a very dangerous situation, and I would only hope that the very fact that the situation is so dangerous, would cause international forces to act effectively to get the United States to step on Sharon.

The United States has the power to get Sharon under control, the U.S. Presidency. I've been campaigning for that, effectively. Sharon must be brought under control. He's extremely dangerous, and he's capable of anything under certain circumstances. So there's no control factor in the ordinary sense. If the United States says no, and means it, we can control Sharon. But until we do that, the situation's extremely dangerous.

Question: About Arnold Schwarzenegger's winning the election for governor of California, in the recall election, some people say that, despite the fact that Schwarzenegger is a Republican, the Bush Administration is not happy with his election. Of course, this is the hypothesis of some experts, because of the financial problem the state has, and they think that this will have a negative impact on the Bush Administration. And also, some people say he has been pro-Austrian, pro-Hitler, and that his ideology will affect this process. Your comments, please?

LaRouche: Arnold Schwarzenegger is a type who would be classed as a Hitler. He has the mentality-not that he's an intellectual figure, he's not an intellectual figure-but he's a personality with a certain beastly disposition. He's a "beast-man," in the sense of Nietzsche's idea of the superman. He is like a Hitler, in the sense that he will do unthinkable things to terrify people into submission.

This has two sides to it, actually three sides. The first side is, that the United States has imported an Austrian fascist as the head of state of California. That is a shock to everybody in the world who understands what Hitler was. With the United States being taken over, even a major state of the United States, being taken over by a fascist, who is as dangerous as Hitler, this is a shock to the world, and there will be a reaction.

We're also sitting in a situation where the California budget is empty. The California treasury is now empty, so whoever takes over California 37 days from now, is going to find an empty budget, an empty till. In the meantime, we're on the verge of a great housing collapse, a real estate collapse in the United States, with international repercussions. What's going to happen very soon is that we're going to have in the United States an impossible situation, and we're going to have the image of a Nazi-like figure-which is what Schwarzenegger is. His father was a Nazi. His father's family and household helped to make Arnie a Nazi in his personality. But his personality is a Nazi, whatever his ideology is, and he's extremely dangerous.

All of these things are complications which are going to decide many things, including the Democratic Party is going to be shaken up, because the Democratic National Committee, and all of the ten rivals of mine for the Democratic nomination, failed completely in this election. They did nothing to win the election. We could have won it. Arnie could not be elected, had they acted properly. So this is one of the other aspects of it.

We're now in a fight. The world knows that we have a Nazi, a genuine Nazi figure, an Austrian immigrant for head of state of California, like Austrian immigrant Hitler for the head of state of Germany. This is what the world is going to be thinking over the coming period. Something is going to happen.

Question: Mr. LaRouche, it is said that you are going to campaign against, let's say, Schwarzenegger, and also against Mr. Cheney, who is one of the staunchest allies of Mr. Schwarzenegger. Is this true?

LaRouche: I'm already doing that. I've got a large youth movement. I'm probably second in the number of people giving me popular support, financial support for my campaign, a very effective campaign. We did a good job in California. If we'd had two other Democratic candidates coming in to do what I did, or the DNC doing what I did, Schwarzenegger could not have been elected. They failed. So obviously it's going to be fun. I'm going for Cheney's impeachment, or resignation, as soon as possible. Many people are now working on that. We're pushing for his resignation, and we're going to do something about the Democratic Party leadership which failed totally in this California situation. They did NOTHING to save the state of California.

Question: Mr. LaRouche, you said that Schwarzenegger is pro-Hitler, but in one article, I read that he is one of the contributors to the Simon Wiesenthal Center, a center which is against the pro-Nazi and pro-Hitler personalities and that also campaigns around Holocaust issues.

LaRouche: It's these circles that helped to make him a rich man. He lists his holdings as $200 million personally. These fellows, including some organized crime people, are very close to him, and helped him get his fortune. He's tied in sonally to McCain, Senator McCain. He's tied into Joe Lieberman, who is really very bad news. He's tied into this fellow Bustamante, a Democrat, who's actually an asset of Arnie Schwarzenegger, through the same financial connections. So this fellow went to the Wiesenthal Center, and cut a deal with these fellows, who are not necessarily what you might think they are. They are essentially gangster mentalities, and they are involved with organized crime types of financial figures, which Arnie is. But Arnie is essentially, his personality is that he's a Nazi.

Now make a comparison. Sharon is supposed to be Jewish. Is Sharon a Nazi? Of course he's a Nazi. Is he a member of the Nazi Party? No, he doesn't have to be a member of the Nazi Party. He's got his faction of the Likud, which is the same thing as a Nazi Party. So sometimes you find that the fascists cling together, and these other little things are secondary to them.

But there's a big Jewish support for fascism in the United States. There's a division among Jews in the United States on this kind of issue, a deep division, as there has been historically, as there is a division on the question of Israel. So that Arnie's affiliation with the Wiesenthal Center helps him financially, but it doesn't change his character.

Question: Considering the fact that Mr. Schwarzenegger is an inexpert man in political and economic issues, and considering the fact that California has a huge financial problem, and  budget deficit, do you think that he will be successful in coping with the situation?

LaRouche: NO! He actually created it. Schwarzenegger is very close to many of these energy companies which conducted the swindle, in concert with Cheney, which cause the financial crisis in California. California had two sources of the financial crisis. One was principally the collapse of the so-called Information Technology section, the so-called Silicon Valley, which took a big loss when the whole internet, this kind of thing, collapsed. The second one is the rip-off of the state of California by Enron and similar companies, who looted the state by taking over the deregulated energy industry. Schwarzenegger was an integral part of that looting, together with international people like Warren Buffett, who is one of his backers, and so forth. So he's actually close to these pirates who looted the state. He has no competence whatsoever. There is no qualification of Schwarzenegger for governing. His only qualification is being a beast-man, who is used, like Hitler, to intimidate a population into submitting to his threats. That's all he is. He's a thug. Period.

Question: Before wrapping up this interview, I want to ask you whether you would agree with me to conduct another interview concerning another major incident in the U.S., this so-called leaking situation inside the United States. Just two or three questions, that don't take your time up. ... And now, Mr. LaRouche, thank you for being with us.

LaRouche: Thank you.

Question: Just a moment, Mr. LaRouche.

Would you please elaborate and brief our listeners the details of this recent leaking of a covert CIA agent in the US,

LaRouche: Which one are you talking about?

Question: Valerie Plame.

LaRouche: Oh, you mean the Joe Wilson case, the wife of Joe Wilson.

Question: Yes.

LaRouche: This is going to blow things up. It's a difficult case because of the personalities involved. It's an important case. It's a violation of the law. The President of the United States is being very foolishly evasive on it. It probably involves Cheney and his circles. It was an operation. It's illegal. It involves the potentiality of major criminal charges against those responsible. George Tenet, the CIA director, has formally begun the procedure which sets into motion a very serious kind of investigation, and I don't think people are going to let it go. I think this thing is going to fly. It's going to be a big issue.

But it's a very tricky situation in the United States on this, because there's a lot of cowardice among people who should be doing things. We're involved in trying to push some of these things to get them done. Otherwise, it's very difficult to say what's going to happen. What should happen is that somebody should actually go to jail over this.

Question: Is Mr. Ashcroft supervising the investigation procedure?

LaRouche: That's going to be a question, because Ashcroft has got a conflict of interest problem. His personal campaigns for election, before becoming Attorney General, involved people who are involved in the area of investigation of this Joe Wilson wife's case. So, therefore, technically, legally ..

Question: Like Mr. Karl Rove.

LaRouche: Yes. That's only one of them, but there are others as well.

This fellow Ashcroft is a very nasty piece of work. What's going to happen is uncertain. But certainly this question is going to be posed, the demand for his recusal. What will happen probably, around this, is there will be from the Congress, some people in the Congress will be pushing for a separation, that is, for the attorney general to appoint a special counsel to conduct the investigation of the case. But there are many dimensions to it. We don't know exactly what's going to happen because there are so many dimensions; and who's going to do what, and who's not going to. That's the problem. So it is difficult to say what's going to happen.

But it is an extremely important case. It goes to the heart of the issues in the United States right now. And it may be one of the things that ends up, whether Cheney is implicated directly or not, it's one of the things that may end up in getting Cheney to be forced to resign.

Question: Do you think George W. Bush himself has been aware of this leaking, considering the fact that Joe Wilson has been one of the critics of the buying of uranium by Iraq from Africa?

LaRouche: I don't know. I don't think that George Bush, the President, knows too much, frankly. And I am very careful about accusing him of knowing something, because I don't think he has the ability to know. He's a very limited person, intellectually. But around him, he's influenced and manipulated. He is mean-spirited. George W. Bush is a very mean person. He's not a pleasant person. He's a type I understand very well. I think he is more a puppet, in effect, of these circles than he is actually

Question: You have said before that George W. Bush himself has a limited personality.  That Rice and others must show him the way.  Some people say that George Bush, ironically, couldn't find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and has resorted to personal destruction. How do relate this irony to the reality?

LaRouche: Well, the reality is that George Bush is personally a very mean and limited person. And you do not have to be intelligent to be mean, cruel, and vicious. And Bush, essentially, is manipulated by people like Cheney who control his mind. So therefore, they know how to manipulate him. And he's mean. So therefore he has no real conscience, which would say, "No. Don't tell me to do that. I am not going to do that." He's the kind of person who is very petty, very mean, very vicious. And he is easily manipulated in to doing almost anything. The only control I know over him, of any significance, comes from his father's circles. And they might have some influence over him, or others. But as long as Cheney's in there-and Cheney is the controlling figure over George Bush-generally, up to a point, George Bush will do whatever Cheney will tell him to do.

Question: In Britain, we had also the similar incident concerning David Kelly's death. And it started with the leaking incident. How do you relate these two incidents?

LaRouche: Obviously, I am not sure. I am sure that what was done to him did cause his death. How the death was caused, I don't know. But I know from the British side, and from my knowledge around the British side, that this was a real scandal; and that it was something that was done by the Blair administration. The problem now is, that for the moment the British establishment has decided to keep Blair in, at least temporarily, rather than dump him. So he was protected, and not dumped. He is still on shaky grounds. But what is a part of this is, there was a  significant cover-up, on the case of the Kelly investigation. But it was done by the establishment. They arranged and configured things in such a way as to create an appearance under which Blair was able to not be thrown out of office. But he is very shaky, and the Kelly story has not come out yet. It is still there, and it can come out.

Question: How would Democrats exploit this situation in the next Presidential election?

LaRouche: Well, I'm the only Democrat that's going to do anything about it. And I will deal with a lot of questions. I will start from what I think are the top questions. And then deal with the auxiliary questions. For me, the top questions are the relations of the United States to the other nations of the world.  I think it is necessary now The world has become very dangerous, with modern nuclear weapons, and other things. And with the things that are happening now. It's necessary to find some form of durable peace-which means new relationships among states. That is, we must have a system of sovereign nation-states who are acting more or less in partnership. But protecting each other's sovereignty. We've got to get that now, otherwise we are going to get into some kind of a mess, war or whatnot, that we don't want. So that's my prime concern. The second thing to me, is the economic issue. We now have a great depression that is oncoming. This is going to cause mass deaths around the world, unless we deal with it. So, therefore, that's my second concern: get this thing under control. Then, there are many other issues, which as a President, I'd be concerned with. But those would be issues I'd deal with as individual issues. But my main concerns are to get this war danger out of the way, get it under control; and to establish a new relationship among states, which is more equitable. You know, I've been, for years, ever since the 1940s, I was concerned about the freedom, the end of colonialism. And I have been committed-and I thought that President Roosevelt was committed to that at the time-to use the post-war opportunity to end the existence of colonial systems. I have been associated for a long period of time with support for the idea of a just new world economic order, including some of my old friends in the non-aligned movement. That's the way I want to go. I want to bring in the nations which have been excluded, from Africa, from South America, from Asia, and to bring them in to more of a partnership. The idea, that if we develop that partnership, that we be the best security for the world. And as part of that, to address the general economic problems which face the human race, like this mess in Africa. Something's got to be done about it. So those issues are the issues I'm mainly concerned about. On the other things, I will deal with the other things ad hoc, on the basis of principle. I will not try to get involved with isolated issues as such, and play issues for electoral politics. It's not my temperament.

Question: Mr. LaRouche, finally, how do you see the political consequences of this leaking incident  for the White House?

LaRouche: I don't know. I think we are getting to the point where my view is we are headed for a big crisis in U.S. politics, in the U.S. political system. I don't think that anything we might assume today is true, will necessarily be true tomorrow. I think there is a big blowup coming, fast. My general view is to be prepared for it, whatever it is, as you would be in war: be prepared for the worst. It's going to come; and I am hopeful, in some respects. I know what I want to do. But I think we are in a very dangerous situation. I don't think there are any easy answers, in terms of the present situation. I think the present government of the United States is crazy. It's difficult to deal with. I have to try to deal with it. But it is crazy. The Israeli situation is insane, extremely dangerous. We have to deal with it. There are no clear solutions in view, because the people who should be cooperating, aren't. So it's dangerous. |And I have to react on the basis of reacting to the situation as it turns up, though you could probably understand what my inclinations would be.

Question: Well, Mr. Lyndon LaRouche, the current U.S. presidential candidate and also the editor and columnist at the Executive Intelligence Review. Thank you for your time, Mr. LaRouche.

LaRouche: Thank you. Good to be with you.

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