Question: Hi I'm from Philly. I've been doing some work on this question of agape and emotions, and I've developed some ideas about this thing. I've been thinking about observations, especially when I'm organizing. Especially when we have a sign about Nazis and stuff like this, and you walk past the table and you talk about their music and they raise their [??]. It's an interesting phenomena. But the trouble comes in, in actually being able to generate this kind of agapic emotion and not actually seeing it as different from reason. Because I think, especially with men in this culture, we totally neglect emotion, because it would signify that something is weak. So what I found out about myself even in the past: when you do that, you become enraged because you don't know how to express real emotions, you become a rageball. You have this kind of thing in the general culture, and it's definitely a problem.

I've been looking at a little bit of Schiller, and this emotion question from the standpoint of drama, and similarly, Gauss. Because what I found is that when you look at the drama, you look at, say, William Tell, you have to get into Tell's mind, is what you're doing. You're not reciting lines, you're not, you know, I'm going to act a certain way. You have to get into the person's mind. And it's the same thing with organizing. But the question is what will force you, what would teach you to do that. And I think that's the question of passion. So you have the intellectual work you want to do, and you have an idea where you want to go, but that idea isn't separated from a certain passion you have to have to do that.

You've talked about a number of things already, dealing with personas. What Nick wrote up about the bipolarity thing. And looking at the Socratic method in the same way. So can you touch on this?

LaRouche: Let's take a look at a very specific case. The case of the Third Act soliloquy of Hamlet. Hamlet has all these questions that come up, but then the question comes, "But when we shuffle off this mortal coil," what happens then, when we die? Now let's take a man who's a swashbuckling killer, a professional soldier who enjoys killing, who does it on impulse. And suddenly be becomes nervous, shaken, frightened. "Does conscience make cowards of us all?" he says. And he goes off to his death, knowing he's going to die a futile death, and does, but nonetheless, does it. And then his friend, right after his body is being carted off the stage, his friend says, well, Fortescu is about to lead off in the same idiotic direction that led to the death of Hamlet. Let's stop here, while this is fresh in mind. Let's learn the lesson of these things.

Now, I think that is one of the most famous cases in drama, because it's actually how drama does help you in organizing. If you get into it, really. Isn't that typical? What is the case of Senator John Kerry. Senator Kerry is a Hamlet! How can you explain Kerry? Kerry is a decorated Vietnam War veteran, but yet, when it comes to risking his career by taking on Iran-Contra and going for the throat against Iran-Contra, when it comes to taking on Vice-President Cheney, he ducks it and takes on the poor ignorant fool George Bush instead. He won't go for the throat. Like Hamlet, he'll fight the wrong fight and he'll die at it, futilely, but he won't take the cause. This is the problem that I face in politicians. I face it in government, I face it around the world, I face it in leaders everywhere. The world is full of talented Hamlets, under whose leadership we're all doomed.

Now, you're on the street. You're out there organizing. What are you dealing with? Do you find something like that? Yes. "Look, man, I've got to worry about a career. I've got to think about my money. I've got to think about the community. I've got to think about my ego." Eh? And these are the kinds of things with Hamlet-like qualities, and you find as you go through classical drama, classical tragedy in particular, you find lots of this. Look at the case of Tell. Tell changes. His wife's influence changes him in his resolve to do something. You find it in the case of Jean d'Arc, in Schiller's treatment of Jean d'Arc, which is historically accurate as to all essential points. This woman had a conception that a nation-state must exist. She flinched once, but then said, no, I'd rather be burned alive than flinch. And her courage ensured the first modern nation-state that France under Louis XI came under existence, and also a general chance occurred in Europe, in which modern European civilization was given a chance to exist.

These are the kinds of things in classical drama, and also in some poetry, which address exactly this problem. Plato's dialogues, treated as drama-and they are drama-and Plato wrote, as he said, with knowledge of the great classical tragedy of the previous time-that of Aeschylus and Sophocles and so forth-that there were defects in this, because they defined the problem without the solution, except for the Prometheus of Aeschylus, which was a slightly different case. Therefore, the Socratic dialogues were composed partly under the influence of the Pythagorean tradition, but as a dialogue as a form of drama, like classical drama, to focus these kinds of problems in life. Like the question of immortality. These other questions, including scientific questions, were all posed there: who is God, and how do we know that?

So actually, a classical education, a study of history from the standpoint of these kinds of classical insights, is the most essential thing for getting to the everyday street problems in life today. Because while the conditions may be different, and the way they're expressed may be different, essentially-as the Hamlet problem, which is a typical problem in society-is still true today. Occurs in a different context, in a different historical setting, with different predicates, but it's a problem. And if you understand these problems, then you'll have an insight into how to deal with everyday problems. The problem that people have, in part, is, think of the stinking entertainment, drama. Think of the television set, think of so-called news broadcasting, think of the newspaper articles. Think of all of these things you're exposed to in culture today. What value does this garbage have to you? None! So therefore, even though you're formally exposed to an education, you are deprived-except under exceptional circumstances, sometimes you'll seek them out for yourselves-to find out classical knowledge from history, especially from great art and the study of history in the light of great art, in order to have insight into what's going on in the society around us. And you call upon that insight, that history, that knowledge of the principles of history, to be able to do that.

I think there is no other solution. For me, it's the only solution. Living through the act of creativity. Looking at things as I look at that, through examples like the works of Shakespeare, such as Hamlet, the Greek classics, Plato and so forth, certain aspects of history, these are the sorts of things that give an idea what mankind is like, what society is like. And what you're doing is the right thing. Except do more of it. You have to concentrate on developing your power to have insight into the society around you, and the more insight you have, the more effective you'll be. And you have to enjoy being a more effective person. You have to enjoy the idea that this month, you're more effective than you were last month, and the month after that, you'll be still more effective. The other thing is to share this process with other people around you, who are going through this same process. Share the same experience, discuss the same problems as a Platonic dialogue is an example of this kind of discussion. Just increase your power. There's no miraculous solution as such. There's no formula. It's just doing it, and having a sense of history. And you see yourself in a situation, and you say, I'm a man also from the past. I've just come fresh from history 2500 years ago, and here's what I have to teach you about what we do then which is applicable today.

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